A few days back I saw UP Headlines - first at one of the sites that link me in their feed - can't recall which - but I do recall reading at the Free Republic site about this "KENYAN-BORN" 2004 East African Standard article.
I plugged it into google wanting to see where my site came in since I had already posted this article 14 months ago. I didn't get indexed or I am being blocked again...wth?
I wanted too address this "KENYAN-BORN" 2004 article.
Sorry, but I don't see what the excitement is all about?
As I point out in my own Kenyan-born 2008 notes, (at the bottom of the page in the above link) aprox. 7 days later, at the very same Standard paper, another author wrote that Obama was NOT Kenyan born.
Does one cancel another?
Which is accurate?
There are MANY papers who say he is foreign born- there are far more that say he is Hawaiian born.
Whichever it is may never be discovered unless a Judge with some red white and blue gonads finally allows standing and discovery.
Where is the 'truth' and why has Obama gone to such extraordinary lenghts to hide and seal up all records of his past?
Personally I don't see how anyone who sneers at people questioning Obama and labeling them 'birthers' have any standing while ignoring all of the substantial discovery.
There are far too many unsavory facts about Obama's past and present too ignore. Far too many documented lies.
It is reported Obama has given Lawyers around one million (updated figure:$1,666,397.01 ) dollars to keep anyone from seeing his birth certificate and prevent anyone from getting a day in court.
Why?
What, are you flippin' a coin? Easy to avoid all of these lawsuits. Just show the dang BC and keep a million bucks...
Please- don't tell me he already did with the COLB - remember his sister was born out of country and she reportedly HAS a Hawaiian COLB also.
Of all the technical examinations and claims of Pshopped COLB forgery I make no opinion based on those findings. I just don't know.
BUT - the one glaring problem I have with the COLB is where it says:
Father's Race: African.
There is no such RACE.
Please- don't point me in the direction of a Hawaiian Newspaper, showing Obama's birth 9 days After he was born, and scoff sarcastically about how mama must have known her kid would one day be president so she signed him up.
IF Barry was born out-country then Booking lil bams name into a USA newspaper had nothing to do with a natural born status - registering would have been, imo, for the sole purpose of receiving an opportunistic citizen document enabling those grand ole demo "U.S." entitlement hand-outs for mama and son.
Getting away from my point again - Newspapers regarding Obama can be, and have been, changed.
A lot of changes with Obama and his Nobel Cease sized crew.
I have listed here on this site alone 3-4 News articles that were scrubbed entirely and several speech transcripts that were changed.
Anything can be re-written.
Today I saw @ The Captain's Quarters web page a site in the blog roll mentioning the Kenyan - Born 2004 article at Alan Keyes site... in the comment section a Jeff Jones and Captain Steve point out that an original article from the Honolulu Advertiser CHANGED the Sunday, January 8, 2006 article stating that Obama was foreign born.
from article:
"Duckworth is happy to point out that she and Hawai'i-raised Punahou graduate Obama have "a kama'aina connection."
"Both were born outside the country — Obama in Indonesia, Duckworth in Thailand — and graduated from high school in Honolulu — Punahou and McKinley, respectively."
A poster, Jeff Jones, @ Keyes site points out the page scrubbing, and adds:
This morning the same page at same URL says:
"Duckworth is happy to point out that she and Hawaii-raised Punahou graduate Obama have "a kama'aina connection."
Both graduated from high schools in Honolulu — Punahou and McKinley, respectively."
This part of the original article has been removed: "Both were born outside the country — Obama in Indonesia, Duckworth in Thailand — and graduated from high school in Honolulu — Punahou and McKinley, respectively."
Ok, so we can add Indonesia to the list of papers to further confuse the issue while also further fueling opposition feedback and name calling...Such a grand Unifier this Obama - but that's not my issue today.
The scrubbing of the text is the issue. That and the shell game that continues to be played on all of us trying to get to the clusterducked bottom of the Obama truth barrel.
This text was not just cleaned up but the new page at the very same URL (at the top of page) now says:
CORRECTION: A correction on this story was published on Sunday, Jan. 15, 2006: Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., was born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961. A Page One story last Sunday contained incorrect information about his birthplace.
Fine, they made a correction--- nothing to see here - moveon.fightthesmears net- fabricators obscured another one ...
NOT so fast son - ...A correction on this story was published on Sunday, Jan. 15, 2006...
Where?
I've looked at the Sunday 15th 2006 Back-Issues page, and also in same date archiveorg pages.
I sure don't see it.
I looked, and looked, and that purported correction, even in the newspapers CORRECTION LINK, just isn't there.
The original page was indexed all the way up until Sept. of 2007 - and no removal-correction of any Text in body of article is displayed. Nor any note at top of any of the archived pages of a correction.
As of just a few days ago this exact same URL did not contain this Sanitized corrective message.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Somebody at "HA" needs to explain themselves and point out the article's location as Titled...
I'd lay odds, from this country's legion of ObamaNation politic gatekeepers, that just won't happen.
update: This morning I found this on scribd :
GETTING IT STRAIGHT - The Honolulu Advertiser: Archives
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/honoluluadvertiser/access/177258...
GETTING IT STRAIGHT
Honolulu Advertiser - Honolulu, Hawaii
Date: Jan 15, 2006
Start Page: A.4 Section: Main
Text Word Count: 52
Document Text Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., was born in Honolulu on Aug. 4, 1961. A Page One story last Sunday contained incorrect information about his birthplace.
If you have a question or concern about the accuracy, fairness or thoroughness of an item in The Honolulu Advertiser, please call reader representative Anne Harpham at 525-8033.
Reproduced with permission of the copyright owner. Further reproduction or distribution is prohibited without permission.
1 of 1
8/29/09 9:31 PM
pqasb.pqarchiver.com is a pay for service. It would appear from this paid for search by a ladysaidy that a correction was found in the Honolulu archives on 8/29/09.
I do not use my credit card online for such things so do not know if it's actually an accurate representation, or when it may have been added too an archive; but it does appear to be listed.
The bottom line, so unfortunately, is that when you have a person who is caught in so many lies one just can not 'trust' anything that person says.
When there has been so much erasing, changing, and disappearance of so many documents especially by the media you can't trust them either.
It is still clear that someone added the "correction" only in this last week to the original page - but unclear if there was an actual correction in 2006. Unfortunately, just as the example above shows, the archives could have been manipulated just as the original article was...
Now I'm curious why someone was looking up the 'correction' on 8/29/09 9:31 PM.
Actually- it's a distraction I'll skip.
Some papers state Obama was foreign born - some are adamant about Hawaii - I've read Canada and Seattle and I'm pretty sure I read somewhere he's a space alien too.
I calls em how I sees em - gathering info as I go - and I think this one, as a suspicious cover-up, is in the dead file. The Paper DID change the original page- but there may have been an actual retraction the following week according to the archive listed above.
In this dishonest change-Obamanation one just never knows for sure - do one?
Posts
23 comments:
IF Obama had been born in Kenya, there would at least be a Kenyan document showing that his mother arrived in Kenya in 1961. No such document has been found, and the explanation that the Kenyan government has sealed the files is weak, since if the Kenyan government had sealed any files it would have been reported by respected news agencies (NOT WND).
IF Obama had been born in Kenya, he would have needed a US travel document to get to the USA, such as a US visa on a British passport or a change to his mother's passport to include him, and that would have had to have been issued in Kenya. Either of those documents would still be on file at the US State Department, if they existed, and they would have been found, if they existed. But no such document has turned up.
Also, it is absurd to believe that Obama's mother traveled from Hawaii to Kenya while she was pregnant. Pregnant women rarely traveled long distances in 1961 because of fear of miscarriages, and there were no direct flights in those days, so she would have had to have made four or five stops along the way to Kenya and back, on poorly pressurized planes, and with long-distance airline tickets costing relatively more (compared to average earnings) in those days than now.
And, Obama's Kenyan grandmother never said that Obama was born in Kenya. She said that he was born in Hawaii. This can be clearly heard if you listen to the complete recording of the tape, which is on Berg’s site. The complete recording includes a question asking “Whereabouts was he born?” And her answer was: “America, Hawaii.”
Here is the complete recording on Berg’s site. Be sure to listen for at least five minutes until the question is asked. (http://obamacrimes.com/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-08.mp3)
If it is too difficult to listen to the complete tape, here is a transcript (http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/obamatranscriptlulu109.pdf).
All the allegations of Obama’s birth abroad were checked out by the McCain campaign, and they found that there were no facts. No facts at all. (http://washingtonindependent.com/52474/mccain-campaign-investigated-dismissed-obama-citizenship-rumors)
As the Wall Street Journal concludes: "Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn."
Hello-
Rather than jump in and address your points (at this moment would take more time than I have for the next few hours) I will first have to read and/or listen to your links so I can get on the same page as where you are coming from.
I'm afraid that I don't agree with most of what you have written - but obviously it's a mutual sharing of disagreement. I'll respond when I have an extra hour or two to find the sources of my first inclinations to just rattle off why most of your points strike me a different way.
I do appreciate that your post of an oppossing view was cordial.
Ok- here goes
to paragraph one- If kenyan government had sealed any files it would have been reported...?
It was reported - just as all of the institutions who have any records on Obama have beeen sealed off.
Where are his kindergarten records, Punahou school records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, passport, medical records, files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records, and his adoption records?
All sealed.
Obama immediately after being sworn in sealed all of his records.
WHY?
Are people over in African countries right wing extremists when they report in their news with so much pride that Obama is Kenyan-born?
see a list from various sites:
http://www.nigerianobservernews.com/4112008/4112008/news/news1.html
http://www.newspageng.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=71&Itemid=37
http://www.graphicghana.com/news/page.php?news=2497
http://www.theobamafile.com/_exhibits/AfricaContinentOfHisBirth.htm
http://www.usafricaonline.com/barackbama08usafrica.gif
http://allafrica.com/stories/200908200781.html
http://www.africa-ata.org/ug_newsletter.htm
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95550177
http://www.plan-uk.org/involved/schools/obamaelection/
http://www.modernghana.com/news2/189461/1/americans-decide-today-go-obama.html
The issue may not be why is it so much more beliveable that he isn't kenyan born because people read that alledged wingnuts are spreading lies - the fact remains that a lot of people who report the kenyan-born truth or myth are getting it from loving Obama supporters.
continued.........
Here's the one thing - there ARE records in kenya. And 'something/s" were sealed. What and why? I don't know of what. BC? brit Citizenship paperwork? passport documentation? Will we ever know?
IF birth records are REALLY there and government sealed we don't have to guess WHY. Do we?
"Administrators and doctors at the hospital told WND sources that in 2004 a high-level team of Kenya's National Security Intelligence Service came to the hospital and seized all files containing birth certificate documents from the years 1960 through 1963.
According to the hospital administrators and doctors interviewed at the hospital, it was not until four months later
that Kenya's National Security Intelligence Service returned the seized files to the hospital."
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=108005
Is this true? I don't know.
Why 1960 thru 1963? Don't really need to guess do we? It's obvious.
One of those files wasn't returned.
if it happened at all.
Over the months I've come to read that for some reason Obama's people consider WND as non-credible - usually it's these same people who reference Annenberg/Soro's Factcheck.org as their source of absolute truth that everyone else who;s done their homework is wrong.
The implications of Kenyan security confiscating records are two-fold.
1. Obama who was certainly tied to Luo officials, and particularly cousin Odinga, could easily have pulled the strings to seal up his records.
Again let's face it - Obama has an absolute record of sealing up all his records.
2. If a birth record was actually siezed then any purported Kenyan BC circulating from the hospital itself has to be looked at with a truck load of salt. (what does looked at with grain of salt mean anyway? - have to look it up)
continued.........
Passports:
Since no one has seen any passports it's a hard one to answer. Is it another cloudy issue? yes. Recall if you will the passport Break -IN? It's my opinion after all of this skull n drugery(sp?) that occurs around Obama that the breakin had a purpose...'change'...erase...modify. So as to the State Department - I have so little faith now adays in this corrupt government and the politic driven dishonesty the only thing that would surprise me is if documents showed up.
I believe I read somewhere and not certain that a baby back then would travel under his mother's passport. Not sure.
If kenya issued a passport- it's been sealed. As I mentioned above. Kenya has reported Obama's records have been sealed. If there is a passport it's sealed.
TO assume what Stanley Ann did in 61 because she was pregnant as oppossed to what you think other women did on a 'rare' basis is speculative isn't it?
From all I have studied Mama pretty much didn't give a rats pituty(sp?) what anyone else thought - unless of course they were 'fellow travelers'. If you get my drift.
Did she go? I don't know. WHY would she have gone? I don't know.
How do you know she didn't go?
Now we have Obama's grandmother:
I'll refer you to one of my granma pages to keep it short.er.
http://obamacom.blogspot.com/2009/08/obamas-grandmother-says-he-was-born-in.html
I did read the transcripts you sent...wow- if anyone is more biased than me in writting it was the author of that transcript. He drooled with speculation. Discounting that i think you wanted me to note that somewhere in there granmama was suppossed to have corrected her statements that she was present in KENYA when Obama was born. I certainly heard alot of younger obama clan who had to clean up granma's constitutional mistake but the cow was out of the barn. She did say before being warned or silenced by the others present that he was born there.
Was he? I don't know.
Why doesn't Obama show a proper BC instead of spending millions to suppress it's viewing? I don't know.
Can you explain it?
continued.......
Why doesn't Kenyan go ahead and release whatever it is they have sealed and then we'll know some more.
Here's the thing - at Obama's own website fightthesmears it says:
http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate
1. Obama is "native Born"...that's NOT 'natural' born status.
what exactly are they telling us? 'native born'? That doesn't qualify.
There is the issue of Obama's pappy not being a US citizen n mama not having accumilated 5 years before she left the country with obama thereby screwing up his citizenship.
2.It also states that he was a kenyan citizen up until 1982...that's not natural born.
3.He also was a British citizen because of pappy...he can't have dual status and qualify for the presidency.
4.He was adopted by Soetoro and was an Indonesian citizen...dual citizenship is not allowed so he lost his US status.
5. when did he legaly change his name back to Obama?
6. When in 1979-1980-1981-1982 he was (according to his website)still a 'kenyan citizen' was he enrolled in schools as a 'foriegn student'?
6a. When he went to Pakistan was he even a US citizen or a Kenyan citizen. According to his own website he was a certified kenyan til 1982.
7. Did he ever regain US citizenship after 1982?
8. Discounting all of the above as to the complicated issues - even if he preformed miraculous feats of
records sealing (WHY?) and he was born in Hawaii he still isn't eligible because of his dual status.
NOW after sayin all of that- the whole issue always confuses me so I may have stated some things incorrectly as to 'status' and citizenship.
Is he a citizen? I have not seen where he took an oath- but probably. Is he a legal "natural born" citizen qualified to Oval office of these US States...legaly? I think not.
Do we KNOW he was born in Hawaii? I don't see where you come up with, "WE KNOW" he was born in Hawaii. McCain?? - sorry - though i voted for him, Mccain was the other less liberal choice, and handed the country over to Obama
with his weak pandering. Sarah Palin was the only thing McCain did right.
McCain stood up there and continuiously stated what a fine young honest man Obama was, and dumped on anyone who disagreed. McCain wouldn't have known a fact even if his crew had found one.
The COLB that Obama has listed states that his father's race is African. If nothing else on that document id phoney that has to be. There is no such thing as the African race. So no sir, that document does not demonstrate Obama was born in Hawaii.
Hawaii's law states:
“A child does not have to be born in Hawaii to receive a Certification of Live Birth. Hawaiian law specifically
allows ‘an adult or the legal parents of a minor child’ to apply to the health department and, upon unspecified proof, be given the birth document.--http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol06_ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.HTM
Could Obama have born out-country and been issued a COLB?
YES.
Does the newspaper announcements that show the obama birth mean he was born there? No.
Upon registering with the State as mama did - the State sends the info to the newspaers who then print it.
Did mama do this US citizen step so her boy would be covered one day to run for president?
Of course not.
She did it for the zu zus and wham whams the government handed out as entitlements to single moms; as reported she DID apply for and use such entitlements.
Did Obama's mother return to the same pattern later when Obama's sister was born? YES. Maya was born out-country- yet she too has a Hawaiian COLB.
Personaly I think it is beyond absurd that all these facts, and so much more, mean nothing to Obama
supporters.
For me- the issue of constitutional birth is a fight for others who have the details and knowledge to go that way.
My huckleberry burr is this marxist road Obama is taking us down and that's what I need to get back too.
Thanks for posting and have a gd day.
Great points in your article and comments by Greybeard. I didn't notice a link to the original HA article. Here's a link to an archived copy. The text in question is paragraph 14.
http://74.6.239.67/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=Duckworth+working+to+win&fr=yfp-t-701&u=the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2006/Jan/08/ln/FP601080334.html&w=duckworth+working+work+works+win+won&d=GM0H2929Tkdh&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=RBXQUMEsLQaizrysuDCulg
There are so many unanswered questions that to some extent it comes down to trust. Does Obama seem trustworthy, or not, and should we trust his online short-form B/C when he has hidden all his other documentation and long-form B/C, and lied about everything else?
I suggest that he's a liar through and through, and double check everything. Here's a few of his lies.
He said:
He was a moderate and would govern from the center.
No new taxes on anyone making less than $250K.
Cap-N-Trade would on cost the amount of a postage stamp per day.
No more Washington as usual.
He said he wrote his own books. Bill Ayres wrote “Dreams.”
No earmarks.
Never used an alias name.
No lobbyists in Cabinet.
He would keep track of the bailout money.
No free health-care for illegals.
No government funding for abortion.
Health-care debate to be broadcast on C-Span.
No programs enacted without having the funding (Pay-Go).
All new bills to be available for public review for at least 5 days.
Didn't want to run car company.
Doctors remove kids tonsils just to make more money.
Enact policies to make world safer.
He would not desert Israel.
He would get out of Iraq.
He would close Gitmo.
He would do whatever it took to win in Afghanistan.
He would get Bin Laden, even if i meant invading Pakistan.
He said he barely knew William Ayers the domestic terrorist and pentagon bomber.
He said he wouldn’t prosecute the CIA agents re detainee treatment.
He would keep a balanced budget.
No deficit spending.
He would be bi-partisan.
Didn’t really know much about ACORN.
Wouldn't allow government funds to pay for abortions.
Would stop illegal immigration.
His Uncle helped liberate the Auschwitz concentration camp at end of WWII.
No government takeover of health-care.
He would represent ALL Americans.
He also said he was born in Hawaii. Hmmm
Thanks, but I think it’s time to see the LONG-FORM birth certificate, and other records!!!!
Obama, you're a liar and a fraud!
HOPE-for-CHANGE
What makes you think the State sent Obamas birth information to the newspaper and not the hospital as is the general way it is done?
Your judgement has holes in it. Your a moron whack job. Is Glenn Beck your daddy?
You tea bager rednecks just invent crap and spread it like a virus. Sites like this are exactly why we need the Government to pass laws to shut you and all you other racsist down.
You are a funny guy. Drunk but funny.
Obama was born in Hawaii. His Birth Certificate at his site was checked by Factcheck.org which you birthers keep ignoring. Even if you argue that native born isn't natural born somehow he certainly is a "citizen" of.
Article II Section I “No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President”
Get your facts str8. You factsmearing idiots can't even understand english.
Re: :”If kenyan government had sealed any files it would have been reported...?”
It was reported”
Answer, only by WND. Has anyone confirmed that there were files sealed or that there were files? There are hundreds of journalists in Kenya, many from countries that have no love for the USA. Moreover, there are freelance journalists, whose living depends on finding interesting articles. If there were sealed files, that would be interesting. Only WND has CLAIMED that there are files.
Re: “ Where are his kindergarten records, Punahou school records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, passport, medical records, files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records, and his adoption records? All sealed.”
Answer. NO. Not sealed. Private. Just as your school records and my school records and medical records are all private. And why should Obama release them? Back during the election, if his opponent had released his kindergarten records, etc, then Obama might have (but he also might not have, the point is that it is voluntary.)
Re: “Obama immediately after being sworn in sealed all of his records." WHY?
This is simply not true. First, the executive order you are referring to was designed to make it more easy to see the records of presidents. Second, it applies only to the records of former presidents. Third, it applies only to FEDERAL presidential records and hence has no effect on Hawaii’s state records, Occidental’s college records, etc.
In Hawaii, the original birth certificate is in the file but it is the policy of Hawaii, which is under a Republican governor, to send out only the OFFICIAL birth certificate, which is what we have seen.
Re; “Are people over in African countries right wing extremists when they report in their news with so much pride that Obama is Kenyan-born?”
Answer, the newspaper or newspapers you are referring to made a mistake. Maybe they thought that Obama was born in Hawaii. Another explanation is that “Kenyan-born” refers to the hereditary link. Meaning that Obamas’ father was Kenya. In some countries, like France for example, you are called “French-born” if your parents were French.
BUT the newspaper or newspapers you refer to did not do any reporting. It did not say: “we know that he is Kenyan born due to our source or to documents.” So, why believe a Kenyan newspaper, when we have this from a highly reliable US Newspaper, the Wall Street Journal: “Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn.”
(I might believe a Kenyan newspaper if it said “we have sources” or if it said that it had found documents, but just on the basis of a single phrase? No.)
Re: “ The issue may not be why is it so much more beliveable that he isn't kenyan born because people read that alledged wingnuts are spreading lies - the fact remains that a lot of people who report the kenyan-born truth or myth are getting it from loving Obama supporters.”
Answer. There are no official documents in Kenya, and none of the newspapers you show quotes documents or sources. In addition, you fail to explain how a child born in Kenya could get to the USA without US travel documents. Do you think that we just allow infant children to enter the country without visas and/or US passports? And do you think that we would allow an obviously black child to enter the USA in 1961 (when there were many Southerners working for the State Department) without either a US passport (or be entered on his mother’s US passport) or a visa? No way.
The application for such documents, a visa or a US passport while in Kenya, would be entered in the files, and they would be still there. The McCain campaign or the Hillary campaign or the CIA or FBI would have found them by now. Or, the state department itself. Until January, it was under Republican control.
That is why the National Review comments: “The theory that Obama was born in Kenya, that he was smuggled into the U.S., and that his parents somehow hoodwinked Hawaiian authorities into falsely certifying his birth in Oahu, is crazy stuff.”
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmJhMzlmZWFhOTQ3YjUxMDE2YWY4ZDMzZjZlYTVmZmU=&w=MA
Re: “Here's the one thing - there ARE records in kenya. And 'something/s" were sealed.”
Answer, there is no confirmation of the allegation by WND that there are files and that they are sealed. There is no confirmation of either of those points.
Re: "Administrators and doctors at the hospital told WND sources that in 2004 a high-level team of Kenya's National Security Intelligence Service came to the hospital and seized all files containing birth certificate documents from the years 1960 through 1963.’
Answer, there is no confirmation of this by anyone other than WND. In 2004 Obama was not even running for president. He was not even sworn in as a Senator until 2005.
Re: “Is this true? I don't know.”
Since only WND says it, and since it requires that Obama’s mother have gone to Kenya, which would have been a long and expensive trip and required her to get a Yellow Fever shot (which is bad during pregnancy), it is not likely to be true.
Re: ‘Over the months I've come to read that for some reason Obama's people consider WND as non-credible - usually it's these same people who reference Annenberg/Soro's Factcheck.org as their source of absolute truth that everyone else who;s done their homework is wrong.”
Yes, Factcheck has made mistakes, as has WND. But there is a difference between believing an organization that claims to have a source in Kenya, and believing that Factcheck photographed the document it was given and posted it on its site and asked the officials in Hawaii if it was valid. And besides, Obama showed the document to BOTH FactCheck and Polifact, and the facts on the document were confirmed by the officials in Hawaii.
Re: “cousin Odinga, could easily have pulled the strings to seal up his records.”
In 2004, Odinga was Minister of Roads. As for strings. When you run for president against the incumbent, the incumbent does everything he can to reverse what you may have done. So, if the files were sealed by Odinga, they would have been unsealed by his opponent. Currently the government of Kenya is split between the two parties, in such a situation it is virtually impossible to keep secrets.
Re: “ If a birth record was actually siezed then any purported Kenyan BC circulating from the hospital itself has to be looked at with a truck load of salt.”
Yes, that birth certificate was forged. But not necessarily because the record was seized. It also could be forged because the original birth certificate never existed.
IF Obama was born in Kenya, there would have to be a UNITED STATES document showing how he traveled from Kenya to the USA, and no such document has been found.
Re: “Recall if you will the passport Break -IN? It's my opinion after all of this skull n drugery(sp?) that occurs around Obama that the breakin had a purpose...'change'...erase...modify. “
Answer: This fails on two grounds. First although there was a passport break-in, no one has ever said that any files were changed (and believe me, they would have if that had happened, remember that was under the last Republican Secretary of State, Condi Rice). Second, the files I am referring to are not passport files, but files of visas issued or US passports issued or amended in Kenya. IF Obama was born in Kenya, he would have to have either a US visa on a foreign passport (and the record of that visa being issued would be in the files). Or he would have to get a US passport in Kenya or he would have to be entered on his mother’s US passport.
Re: ‘ I believe I read somewhere and not certain that a baby back then would travel under his mother's passport. Not sure.”
You are right. I did. However, you had to be entered on your mother’s passport. It became a passport for mother and child, both names were on it. There would be a record of changing the mother’s passport to include Obama, and if that took place in Kenya, there would be a record of that change in Kenya.
Re: ‘If kenya issued a passport- it's been sealed.”
In those days the passports that were issued were British. In any case, if Obama received either a British or Kenyan passport, he would have to have had a US VISA on it.
Re: “Did she go? I don't know. WHY would she have gone? I don't know.”
Okay. There is no evidence that she did go.
Re: ‘ How do you know she didn't go?”
Because there is no evidence that she did go, but there is a birth certificate indicating that she gave birth when she was in Hawaii, and there is a witness who recalls being told of the unusual event of a woman named Stanley giving birth (she remembers because she wrote about it to her father, also named Stanley) (http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html)
Re: “ Now we have Obama's grandmother… that she was present in KENYA when Obama was born. I certainly heard alot of younger obama clan who had to clean up granma's constitutional mistake but the cow was out of the barn. She did say before being warned or silenced by the others present that he was born there.”
As for being “present in Kenya when he was born.” Yes that is precisely right, she was present in Kenya when he was born in Hawaii. Some say that the translation (to which she merely answered “yes”) asked was she present when Obama was born in Kenya. But, if the translation read “was she present in Kenya when he was born?” the answer is yes, but the latter does not imply that Obama was born in Kenya. It only shows that she was in Kenya.
So, since there is confusion over what she was asked due to the translation, it is important to consider her answer to a very simple question: “Whereabouts was he born?” And her answer was “America, Hawaii.”
You may not believe that she said that, but then there is no proof that she said that he was born in Kenya either. This being the case, the recording does not prove a thing either way, but the official birth certificate of Hawaii does prove birth in Hawaii.
Re: “Why doesn't Obama show a proper BC instead of spending millions to suppress it's viewing? I don't know. Can you explain it?”
First, Obama has posted the official birth certificate of Hawaii. Of that birth certificate, the Wall Street Journal commented: “Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn.”
Second, the idea that Obama has spent large sums to keep his birth certificate secret is crazy. There has not been a single lawsuit against Obama that simply asked for his birth certificate. All the lawsuits (the vast majority of them) before the election were to stop the election. Most of the lawsuits after the election were to stop the Electoral College from voting, stop the certification of the election or stop the Inauguration. The few remaining lawsuits include demands to see such things as Obama’s kindergarten records and his college housing records. Since Obama has a right to keep those things private, why not oppose those lawsuits. But there has never been a lawsuit against Obama ONLY for the birth certificate, and most cases did not even ask a court to order Obama to show the birth certificate to the court.
So, there have been a lot of cases, but none directly related to the birth certificate. AND, Obama has shown his official birth certificate, and the facts on it were confirmed by the officials, and there is even a witness who recalls being told of his birth in Hawaii.
Re: “ Why doesn't Kenyan go ahead and release whatever it is they have sealed and then we'll know some more.’
Well, first Kenya has to have files and second it has to have sealed them, and we have no proof of that.
Re: “Obama is "native Born"...that's NOT 'natural' born status.”
You are now moving from a question of fact, where he was born, to a question of law, what does Natural Born mean. Briefly, everyone who is native born in the USA is Natural Born, as the Yale Law Review points out: “It is well settled that “native-born” citizens, those born in the United States, qualify as natural born.” (Jill A. Pryor, Yale Law Review, 1988)
Re: “It also states that he was a kenyan citizen up until 1982...that's not natural born.”
Answer, who says? If the rule is that everyone born in the USA is natural born, then the fact of foreign citizenship does not affect that. And that is the rule.
Re: “he can't have dual status and qualify for the presidency.”
Who says? This point was raised with the electors of the Electoral College. Not one believed it. This point was raised to the congressmen who confirmed Obama’s election. Not one believed it.
As such prominent conservative Senators who are also lawyers as Orren Hatch and Lindsay Graham say that a Natural Born Citizen is simply one who was born in the USA:
Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), said:
“Every child born in the United States is a natural-born United States citizen except for the children of diplomats.” (December 11, 2008 letter to constituent)
Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-UT), said:
“What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born within the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.” (Senate Judiciary Committee hearing hearing on OCTOBER 5, 2004)
Re: ‘He was adopted by Soetoro and was an Indonesian citizen...dual citizenship is not allowed so he lost his US status.”
He wasn’t adopted by Soetoro, and he was never a citizen of Indonesia as both Indonesia and the US State Department have said (the latter in this legal filing: (http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6)
Of the Indonesian myth, the Wall Street Journal commented:
“The hypothesis--based on thin evidence and fat speculation--is that Obama was adopted by his stepfather and therefore became an Indonesian citizen.
“Even if that were true, however [and it isn’t], it would not deprive him of his status as a natural-born citizen of America. As the State Department Web site notes:
Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered . . ., a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship.
It is outlandish to suggest that a boy under 10 could persuade a diplomat of all that. It is only a tiny bit less outlandish to think that Obama came back to the U.S., spent eight or more years here, and then decided to renounce his citizenship.
Besides, the oath of renunciation is administered in writing. What are we to conclude about someone who refuses to accept an official state birth certificate as proof of birth but expects us to accept utterly preposterous theories with no documentary evidence whatever?”
Re: “when did he legaly change his name back to Obama?’
He didn’t LEGALLY change it to Soetoro. He just used that name.
Re: “When in 1979-1980-1981-1982 he was (according to his website)still a 'kenyan citizen' was he enrolled in schools as a 'foriegn student'?”
There is no evidence that he was.
Re: “When he went to Pakistan was he even a US citizen or a Kenyan citizen. “
He traveled on a US passport, which any US citizen could do. Pakistan was not on any “no travel list”, nor did it bar US citizens from traveling there. We know that Obama had a US passport from at least the time when he returned from Indonesia to attend High School in Hawaii. He may have had it earlier when he went from Hawaii to Indonesia (though he could have traveled on his mother’s passport, but only if he had been entered on her passport, which would have required proof being a citizen of the USA, just as a passport does).
Re: “he still isn't eligible because of his dual status.”
Yes he is.
Re: “Is he a citizen? “
Yes he is.
Re: “I have not seen where he took an oath.”
Not necessary. He was born in the USA.
Is he a legal "natural born" citizen qualified to Oval office of these US States...legaly? I think not.
You think wrong.
Re: “Do we KNOW he was born in Hawaii? I don't see where you come up with, "WE KNOW" he was born in Hawaii. “
There is the OFFICIAL birth certificate, the notices in the newspapers (which were sent out for births in Hawaii and not for births outside of Hawaii). There is the confirmation of the two officials, and the witness. And there is no evidence that he was born anywhere else.
Re: “The COLB that Obama has listed states that his father's race is African. If nothing else on that document id phoney that has to be. There is no such thing as the African race. “
According to the rules in Hawaii, a person could list his or her race any way that they wanted, and the clerk had to take it down.
Re: “A child does not have to be born in Hawaii to receive a Certification of Live Birth. Hawaiian law specifically allows ‘an adult or the legal parents of a minor child’ to apply to the health department and, upon unspecified proof, be given the birth document.--http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol06_ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.HTM
That requires a delay of issuing the document of at least a month following the birth, and it only applied to children born outside of hospitals. There was (1) no delay, as the newspaper notices show. (2) evidence from a witness that Obama was born in a hospital (http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html)
Re: “Could Obama have born out-country and been issued a COLB? YES.”
No. The law that allowed foreign births to be registered in Hawaii was not passed until 1982, more than twenty years after Obama’s birth.
Re: “Does the newspaper announcements that show the obama birth mean he was born there? No.”
Yes. They were only sent out for births in Hawaii.
Re: “Upon registering with the State as mama did –“
Mama could not do it alone. She had to show that the child was born in Hawaii.
Re: “Maya was born out-country- yet she too has a Hawaiian COLB.”
No she doesn’t. (This has been proven conclusively by the research of Leo Donofrio). Maya is a naturalized US citizen.
Re: “Thanks for posting and have a gd day.”
And the same to you.
Re: “should we trust his online short-form B/C when he has hidden all his other documentation and long-form B/C…”
Answer: Obama has posted the official birth certificate of Hawaii. He is the first president to have shown a birth certificate to anyone. The facts on it were twice confirmed by the officials in Hawaii, and there is even a witness.
Re: “ Thanks, but I think it’s time to see the LONG-FORM birth certificate, and other records!!!!”
Re: the birth certificate. It is only because Hawaii does not send out the long-form birth certificate that we cannot see it, so get Hawaii to change the rules. Obama has posted the birth certificate that Hawaii sent to him. Re the other records, such as his kindergarten records, housing records while at college. These records are private.
re: Any-mouse -
As to my judgement...http://www.google.com/search?client=qsb-win&rlz=1R3HPIA_enUS330US330&hl=en&q=The+Advertiser%E2%80%99s+Marsha+McFadden+confirmed+that+at+the+time+of+Obama%E2%80%99s+birth+announcement,+the+newspaper+got+all+of+its+information+from+the+state+Department+of+Health.
“The Advertiser’s Marsha McFadden confirmed that at the time of Obama’s birth announcement, the newspaper got all of its information from the State Department of Health. That would include the address. ‘If we published it, it came from the state,’ she said.”
I read hundreds of pages a day sometimes to try to patch any holes in my thought process. IF you bothered to read my findings above- I actually presented a fairly balanced account of the "Kenyan-born" hooplah sweeping the net. I ask, what is all the excitement? And I show another article days later with an opposite view that he was NOT born in Kenya - so what is the big deal?
Despite the "corrected" article not found anywhere I continued searching and showed a link where the correction could apparently be found. Conclusion? What's all the excitement about?
I believe the phrase is "tea baNger rednecks" spread like a Garofalo virus by Obama's media...and now you.
I doubt you can find any racist content on this site other than Obama's own quotes. Certainly there were hundreds of racist comments by Obama people that I removed.
As to the government shutting sites like mine down- well when I am gone and they come for your own unsecured speech who will be left to speak for you? Giving the Government more an more power does nothing but remove your own freedoms and make you a 'subject'of their dominion working for them. When they are done 'using' your voice to their own benefit they will then proceed to consume your tounge.
Usually useless race card rants, and personal attacks, of no value have been removed here...perhaps I made a mistake in removing hundreds of your type of posting over the last year and a half. I will have to give it more thought. For one, posts like yours shows a disdainful personality that follows Obama like a shadow. For another by removing your views I fail to show a record of why the intolerant 'left' demand for diversity is really nothing more than an intrusion into my own individual free speech and expression. According to Obama, and his minions like Mark Lloyd in
order for sites like mine to 'exist' at all, I must be forced to allow points of view like yours so that people are
presented with both sides of an issue. Ironic that what concerns Obama is the 'shouting in the blogosphere'while not delivering "his" view of the 'news' and insisting that I should let you 'holler'.
Here is my solution: You have a clicker- if you don't like what I have to say click the X at the top of the page and move on to content you prefer.
re: Justice post.
I guess I didn't make myself clear - anything reported by SOROs operated partisan-factcheckorg is not the holy grail of truth. Factcheckorg needs to be ignored for they are the socialist left arm of Soros-Obama-demo. propaganda. Period.
I have not stated that Obama wasn't definitively born in Hawaii - I said IF he was not- and I layed out various points of problems with his citizenship tree that people want answers too.
I am more dubious then centered on where he was born because the COLB seems wrong too me, and because Obama has made every effort under the global sun to hide "SOMETHING".
I pointed out I am not well versed and read on the birth and constitutional issues and leave that to others. I should have known better than to make any birth comments in my write-up because I am really not knowledgable enough on the subject to debate all of the issues. As I said, removing ALL OF THE ISSUES there still remains the FACT that Obama admits on his own site that he was a Kenyan citizen and also a British citizen; and a native citizen.
Forgetting all the other birth issues - even those I have read that say 'native citizen' is NOT "natural citizen" - there remains the one fact that can not be ignored. Through his father Obama was born a British subject.
DUAL citizenship at birth is not "natural citizenship". My personal opinion is that Constitutionaly obama is not eligible for POTUS.
As to your contention that the Article II sentence stating: "or a Citizen of the United States" makes him eligible is false.
That sentence was in there so that the people AT THE TIME of the writting - who were not natural born, but were citizens - would not be excluded from running for POTUS.
Re: I have not stated that Obama wasn't definitively born in Hawaii - I said IF he was not.”
IF he was not born in the USA, I would agree with you that he would not be eligible. The same applies to all presidents. If Bush was not born in the USA, he would not have be eligible. Bush did not prove that he was born in the USA, and yet no problems, no one asked for proof. No one asked him to show anything.
In contrast, Obama has shown the official birth certificate of Hawaii, toe ONLY birth certificate that Hawaii currently sends out (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html). The facts on it were confirmed by the officials in Hawaii (http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html), and there is even a witness who recalls being told of his birth in Hawaii in 1961 (http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html)
Re: “the COLB seems wrong too me.”
It is what everyone in Hawaii gets:
Quotes:
Thursday, November 06, 2008
By Andrew Walden
A fairly impressive internet industry has sprung up claiming that Obama was born in either Kenya or Indonesia. This is nonsense which distracts from the broadly unexplored story of Obama’s upbringing. This kind of nonsense has emerged because the McCain campaign chose not to raise the many questions about Barack Obama’s numerous hard-left alliances. Barack Obama was born in Hawai`i, August 4, 1961 at Kapiolani Medical Center in Honolulu.
Obama’s birth certificate posted online is exactly the same birth certificate everybody in Hawai`i gets from the State Department of Health. It is not forged. There is nothing unusual about the design or the texture. In addition to the birth certificate, the August 13, 1961 Honolulu Advertiser also carries an announcement of Obama’s birth. The Honolulu Star-Bulletin also carries the same announcement. Both papers require submission of a copy of the birth certificate to print a birth announcement. (Correction: Both papers printed an identical list of birth announcements supplied to them by the Hawaii State Department of Health.)”
End Quote
Re: “ there still remains the FACT that Obama admits on his own site that he was a Kenyan citizen and also a British citizen; and a native citizen.”
He did not admit. He stated or proclaimed that his father was a Kenyan citizen. He told everyone very clearly that his father was a Kenyan citizen. He did this because he knew that having a father or for that matter a father and a mother who was not a citizen at the time of birth does not mean that Obama was not natural born. The original meaning of Natural Born simply means born in the country. It comes from British common law and the laws in the American colonies and early states.
As the Wall Street Journal commented: “Some birthers imagine that there is a difference between being a “citizen by birth” or a “native citizen” on the one hand and a “natural born” citizen on the other. “Eccentric” is too kind a word for this notion, which is either daft or dishonest. All three terms are identical in meaning.”
And two conservative US Senators have exactly the same view:
Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), said:
“Every child born in the United States is a natural-born United States citizen except for the children of diplomats.” (December 11, 2008 letter to constituent)
Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-UT), said:
“What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born within the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.” (Senate Judiciary Committee hearing hearing on OCTOBER 5, 2004)
Re: "As to your contention that the Article II sentence stating: "or a Citizen of the United States" makes him eligible is false."
I never said any such thing. To be eligible, a person must be over 35, have lived in the USA for 14 years and be a Natural Born Citizen, meaning both a citizen and Natural Born. And the original definition of Natural Born (which does not apply to McCain but does to Obama) is simply Born in the USA>
Re: "Factcheckorg needs to be ignored."
As I said, he showed the physical document to BOTH FactCheck and Polifact (which is run by the St. Petersburg Times of Fla.). In addition, the facts on the document were twice confirmed by the officials in Hawaii.
re:smrstrauss
We will just have to agree that we disagree.
I have researched and written now on Obama's friends-family-mentors-own words-beliefs-record-and philosophy- for over a year and a half and whether he was born here or yonder is an issue that will have to be reconed with on documentation that has been hidden from public view.
What Obama has been nutured to become after he was born needs to be reconed with now even if he was born in Hawaii. Obama shows positive that one could be born on American soil and still be Un-American. The Government body had a duty to perform to protect America from the marxist likes of Obama and the corruption of American values. Constitutionaly i care where he was born- but he may get away with it while doing damage to all other aspects of our constitution. His repeated attacks against first amendment, and his appointments of crazies to suppress and threaten speech to all but themselves or followers must be stoped no matter where he was born. His subterfuge and lies must be exposed since he owns the media no matter where he was born.
His unobstructed power to transform America into a cleared path to communism must be revealed and tharwted no matter where he was born. His socialist-marxist-communist-Moaist-friends must not be given power to 'change' America into what she is not no matter where they were born...slap me in forehead- that's right - these America haters were born here.
HOPE i make myself clear.
We can go on and on- Obama is NOT American, he is anti-American, no matter where he was born.
Re Obama being anti-American wherever he was born.
The solution for this is to vote against him, and/or encourage your legislators to vote against his proposals and/or vote to impeach (which takes a majority in the house and two-thirds of the senate, and so is not likely.)
However, on the issue of Obama being born outside of the USA, that is not true, and there is not a shred of evidence for the myth that he was born in Kenya. Moreover the official birth certificate has been confirmed by the officials in Hawaii.
Only WND has said that there are files in Kenya that are sealed. No confirmation. The Grandmother never said that he was born in Kenya. She said that he was born in Hawaii.
This is what the National Review says of the Kenya myth: "The theory that Obama was born in Kenya, that he was smuggled into the U.S., and that his parents somehow hoodwinked Hawaiian authorities into falsely certifying his birth in Oahu, is crazy stuff."
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmJhMzlmZWFhOTQ3YjUxMDE2YWY4ZDMzZjZlYTVmZmU=&w=MA
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